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Author Topic: Here Come the GM Hybrids!! Back to Topics
detfan

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2008 6:17:11 AM

GM, has steadily been improving and increasing its hybrid technology, first being used in buses back in 2002. Early automotive hybrids, on the Saturn Aura and Chevy Malibu have been of the "mild" type -- not too much additional price, and not too much additional mileage. Playing catchup to the Prius and others, it now seems GM is getting in the game to dominate.

Enter the first two-stage hybrids, appropriately being introduced on GM's gas guzzling Tahoe and Yukon. The mileage ratings on these are 50% higher than their standard counterparts giving them the same city mileage as a 4 cyl. mid sized sedan. However, as the link below indicates, like my 2008 Malibu LTZ, the Tahoe tested is getting 25% better mileage than its EPA Ratings, getting 26.3 mpg!!

GM says they will be releasing new hybrids every three or four months, for the next few years. The 2009 Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra will have this same technology. The Saturn Vue will, also, and then also be available as a plug-in hybrid. Its going to be interesting watching the progress and gauging the success of each model.
Chevy Tahoe Two-Stage Hybrid Road Test
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contiki
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Message Posted: Apr 15, 2014 8:39:02 AM

Charlie_H says " If GM is paying detfan, they're certainly getting their money's worth."

So true...............sad but true............
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geminijax
Champion Author Jacksonville

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Message Posted: Apr 15, 2014 8:33:35 AM

LOL Charlie! I can attest to detfan's habit of dumping on others' whiteboards. He did on mine. It wasn't as much propaganda as it was hateful rants. Since then, I decided not to respond to anything he posts.

Frankly, that was very childish and immature, IMHO!
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 15, 2014 8:05:41 AM

rumblesat: "Or, maybe davisadm is a Toyota plant? Yeah, that must be it."

Doubtful. davisadm posted here just once and then detfan dumped propaganda on davisadm's whiteboard, which drew him back. Since then, he's been quiet.

detfan, on the other hand, has started a couple of threads lauding GM's technological prowess, can be relied on to pump their products and has the habit of pursuing people out of the forum and dropping GM propaganda and, sometimes, rants on their whiteboards. If GM is paying detfan, they're certainly getting their money's worth.


[Edited by: Charlie_H at 4/15/2014 9:06:46 AM EST]
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Apr 15, 2014 7:29:53 AM

" the giant H-Y-B-R-I-D sticker on the side? A popular question on various forums when these first came out was, "How do I remove that sticker?""

Actually that distinction of the giant plaque was from the Cadilac version. I saw it one day and I could not believe the size of it... It actually was quite a site and no one could mistake it was a Hybrid...

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rumbleseat
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Message Posted: Apr 15, 2014 12:03:16 AM

davisadm days: "detfan must be a GM plant."

This is just as odious as the ones accusing members of being paid by the ethanol industry to post anti-oil posts, and the ones accusing members of being paid by Big Oil to post anti-ethanol posts.
Think about it, GM would create a member to plant in little old GasBuddy? That is ludicrous.
Or, maybe davisadm is a Toyota plant? Yeah, that must be it.
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2014 11:33:45 PM

"Actually she noticed the Hybrid Plaque at the same time I did..."

One of the tasteful little badges or did it still have the giant H-Y-B-R-I-D sticker on the side? A popular question on various forums when these first came out was, "How do I remove that sticker?"

One review I read said they counted 13 hybrid badges on or in the vehicle. I can only think of 3 on my Prius, unless you count the blue-tinted T on the nose and the "Hybrid Status Indicator" message on the dash display.
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2014 8:21:26 PM

"You should have taken a picture, that is a rare bird indeed..."

I would have, but I was driving down in Florida with my significant other... and she gets violent when I use my phone while driving... Actually she noticed the Hybrid Plaque at the same time I did...
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2014 3:51:52 PM

weaslespit: "Exactly - you only provide data that supports your position. I couldn't have said it better myself."

Except, I didn't say, "only."

Now, if you object to my numbers, feel free to dig up your own and explain why they're more significant, important or relevant.

However, if it's your position that certain GM vehicles which I have criticized are "successes," reality isn't your friend.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2014 12:18:41 PM

"The fact is, I provide numbers that support my position."

Exactly - you only provide data that supports your position. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Unfortunately reality is as convenient as that...
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2014 12:17:42 PM

"Speaking of GM hybrids ... Saw one of the large hybrid SUV's (Tahoe) on road trip from Florida."

You should have taken a picture, that is a rare bird indeed...
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reb4
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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2014 4:55:51 PM

Speaking of GM hybrids ... Saw one of the large hybrid SUV's (Tahoe) on road trip from Florida.

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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2014 11:00:47 AM

detfan: "The fact is, you [Charlie] are wrong, and I am right, and nothing in your creative journalism changes that."

The fact is, I provide numbers that support my position. The Cruze diesel take rate is miniscule and the high cost of diesel makes any kind of payback uncertain and not at all quick. If GM provides this engine for meaningless bragging rights ("We have a diesel where [other car co] doesn't"), then they are meeting expectations. If there's a business plan to actually sell these things, then it's a bad plan.

The Chevy Volt is uncompetitive. The Leaf outsells it, it has gained little traction outside the US, it makes Corvette-like quantities even with a mind-bending tax credit and, as a bonus, GM loses money on every one. These are facts. Almost 50% are registered in CA, where HOV access, thought to be worth as much as $10K, is also available for the Volt. The extra $5K barely places it ahead of the Prius PHV (which Weaslespit will be delighted to point out is no great shakes, either) and the combined sales of the Energi cars. In key measures, (seating, CS mode fuel economy), it's an also-ran but a relatively expensive one. FACTS.

detfan: "Not with this makeup of GB posters. "

If you believe this, then you should ask yourself why so many Americans do not care for GM.

davisadm,

Thanks for passing that along.

detfan: "Don't let the drop in Volt sales fool you."

It's not fooling us, detfan, you're fooling yourself. Sales have dropped off in spite of GM's $5K price decrease. This is not good.

detfan: "When GM does there special lease again later this Spring you will see sales up again."

You should ask yourself, why does a car with a minimum of $7500 in tax and other public benefits need a special lease deal to get it up in sales?

detfan: "The next gen Volt is getting closer, too, with higher electric range, lower price, 5th seat, and higher mileage using the gas generator.

It's still over a year away, both the next-generation Prius and Toyota's new FCV will beat it to market. But it's nice to know the G2 Volt will finally have features the G1 should have had.

detfan: "comparative global sales through 4 years is Voltec at 66,690 in sales and Prius at 52,230"

1997 called again... I'm getting tired of them asking where all the Volts are. Can I give them your number?

detfan: "toxic posters"

detfan's secret code word for "realists."

detfan: "so I will probably vacate again"

Do you promise?
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davisadm
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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2014 9:56:34 AM

detfan must be a GM plant. He can't stop defending the Volt! After my post yesterday, I received a post on my whiteboard from detfan:
"Thanks for your post on the GM hybrid Board. Don't let the drop in Volt sales fool you. When GM does there special lease again later this Spring you will see sales up again. The Volt is outselling the Prius so far at the same stage in global sales, which is encouraging, since there is so much competition now.(comparative global sales through 4 years is Voltec at 66,690 in sales and Prius at 52,230) The next gen Volt is getting closer, too, with higher electric range, lower price, 5th seat, and higher mileage using the gas generator. The PHEV is certainly a very small segment, but within the segment, the Chevy Volt is the leader in sales and electric range so far. Unless electric gets displaced by hydrogen fuel cells, I believe GM will keep their Voltec technology ahead of the competition. However, since coming back to that thread I see there are still some toxic posters there, so I will probably vacate again, and just ask GB to close it. I wish I could find a thread that enthusia"
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detfan
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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2014 9:24:31 AM

CharlieH, the continuing contrarian. The fact is, you are wrong, and I am right, and nothing in your creative journalism changes that.

You know Contiki is right. This is nothing but a toxic board. Since nothing has changed, I am going to ask GB just to close this board.

It is impossible for GM enthusiasts to communicate here(or anywhere, really) without the import elite showing up and stirring the pot.

Maybe GM fans go to import threads and do the same thing, but I don't. I just want a small group of gas Buddy's with similar interests in GM to have a place to post in peace. Never going to happen. Not with this makeup of GB posters.
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2014 8:09:27 AM

And, of course, to support your original post, we'd like to see how GM's hybrid programs are "dominating" anything. It has been over six years since we were promised GM would be "dominating" the hybrid market.

Commanding market share would certainly be persuasive evidence.

For your information, this is what "dominate" looks like.
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2014 8:06:09 AM

detfan: "Cruze Diesel is competitive."

The market says it isn't. See previous note on take rate. Compare it to WV's.

detfan: "The Chevy Volt is competitive, and playing on the same tax credit playing field as everyone else."

Wrong. The Chevy Volt, with its $35K sticker price is uncompetitive. The Chevy Volt, aided by $7500 and up in federal and local incentive, often with an additional $2-5K in GM's own incentives is marginally competitive to the tune of 1500/month so far this year.

And more wrong. It plays by the same rules but the Volt was engineered to grab maximum Federal incentive cash and gets $5K more than a Prius PHV (which is outsold by the Volt by a mere 26 units with a 35 state availability deficit) and significantly more than a Ford Energi product.

You may fan on, FanBoi, but these are *facts*.

If you feel like disputing anything, I recommend you bring *facts* that support what you say. Good luck with that.
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detfan
Champion Author Tallahassee

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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2014 2:44:04 AM

Cruze Diesel is competitive. The Chevy Volt is competitive, and playing on the same tax credit playing field as everyone else.

Your premises are incorrect.
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2014 10:22:36 PM

The take rate for the Cruze diesel is 2.4%.

In addition to being priced too high, sensible people are going to wait a couple of years to see how troublesome a new GM diesel will be before they risk their hard-earned money on it. The memory of the Olds diesels is alive and well.
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2014 10:18:03 PM

Almost 50% of Volts sold in the US are registered in California where it enjoys HOV access and an extra $1500 in tax credits? Well... that tells us a great deal about the power of government bribes.

You've provided the data that proves my point that this wouldn't sell without the cash handouts.

Thanks.
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2014 10:14:12 PM

LOL.

detfan, you get so little right, yet you never give up and you never learn. GM has offered four different hybrid systems, called every one a hybrid, overlooked glaring deficiencies in their strategy and the product and promised that their strategy and product made more sense than the competition in each case. Yet, GM has not built a single hybrid that sells in numbers that could possibly make it profitable.

The Volt is their most "successful" hybrid to date and it's buoyed by $7500 in tax credits per vehicle (a level of bribery that no HSD vehicle has ever enjoyed). Without that, it would be nowhere. Even with it to help prop up sales, GM assures us they lose money on every one.

No negative spin, just a sad recounting of the results of a broken corporate management culture.

The Volt remains a flop, irrespective of whether or not any other vehicle is a flop.

Of course, "flop" requires some analysis. The Volt cost $1.2 billion and we endured 4 solid years of bragging before GM brought forth this underachiever. When you spend $1.2 billion, you should get something for it. Profits? Nope. Strategic command of the market? Nope, the Volt has to scrape for share and has no significant lead in the US market and is losing worldwide to the Leaf and, in all likelihood by now, the Prius PHV. The plug-in market *has* expanded but everybody new carves out share at GM's expense. This "leapfrog" has leapt over nothing.

Is the Prius PHV a flop? Well, it does sell in low volumes but the investment is commensurate with the results. Only available in 15 states, with $5K less in tax credits, it was outsold in the US by the Volt by only 26 units last month. It cost Toyota peanuts to do. It probably outsells their Group 5 option kit, has about the same number of differences between it and the regular Group 3 as the Group 3 does from the Group 5 but we don't consider modest sales of Group 5 level Priuses to be a flop. Nor is the PHV. It's a smart, low development cost beachhead in a market that may turn out to be strategic.

Ford is following a similar strategy because a) they can and b) they're not stupid.

El Lutzbo mocked hybrids back in the mid '00s, when people were lined up around the block to get Priuses. Well, that's all he could do... lamely attempt to persuade people that there was nothing to see there, move along, because GM had nothing to offer. Under his leadership, GM delivered nothing that would sell and he bailed out of GM before his flagship hybrid flop hit the streets. He's now singing a different tune... the Volt should have been a truck. Of course, he's hooked up with electro-truck manufacturer Via, so what else would we expect?

But GM let this clown be their "Car Czar" and now they get to live with the results.

Over at Toyota, the Chairman of the Board is now Takeshi Uchiyamada, who was principally responsible for the Prius. By way of comparison, most of the people who worked on the Volt are gone or have become unpersons.

Flop!
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detfan
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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2014 1:50:04 PM

"Where are the Volts?

22,876 in California
3,899 in Oregon
1,677 in Florida
488 in Minnnesota.
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detfan
Champion Author Tallahassee

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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2014 1:47:48 PM

"Odd... they kept calling things "hybrids." And, in fact, the GMT-900 Two-Mode flops were true hybrids. Now, "embraced the strategy," could be interpreted in many ways. Certainly, GM kept these losers on the market for a number of years and told us what a great strategy they were. What's missing there?"

Not true, just negative spin

"Which is laughable because everybody else looked at the BAS vehicles and realized that prices higher than a $25K Camry hybrid which barely got you the fuel economy of a $19K Camry was a losing proposition."

Not true, just in the eyes of some import elite knucklehead posters.

"detfan: "Voltec""

"Flop."

Certainly not true as, Voltec is outselling Prius, even with the multitude of electric and hybrid now in the marketplace, and is better value that the Prius Plug in, which is inferior in design and performance.

detfan: "and diesel,"

"The payback for purchasing that high-mileage Cruze diesel looks to be very close to never. GM priced it too high."

Very untrue, Jetta has $5,000 premium, and Cruze only has $3,000

"We still only have one E-85 pump here in town, although we've probably added 15K residents since this topic started. I have yet to see anyone using it (it's along one of my regular walk routes). Given the relative pricing of E-85 and the sucktastic fuel economy when running on E-85, it's no surprise that it's not a very popular pump."

Can't help where this poster lives but there are over 3,300 e85 pumps and well over 13,000,000 gallons pumped annually.

detfan: "There isn't even much recent news on GM's hydrogen fuel cell program, so highly touted"

"By Gm and by you."

Not true. Project Driveway and GM's Hydrogern program has been touted by thousands of consumers, written in many respected publicans and in use at three military facilities.

detfan: "a few years ago with Project Driveway."

"Toyota has announced their Fuel Cell vehicle will be available as a 2015 model. Looks like Toyota has figured out how to manufacture a fuel cell stack cost-effectively enough to get it into a real production car. Where's the Project Driveway thing, now?"

I son't know. Why don't you find out?

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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2014 12:44:48 PM

"I'm certainly not going to guarantee that."

I can't say I'm surprised...
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2014 12:44:28 PM

detfan: "Since GM has basically never embraced a true hybrid strategy,"

Odd... they kept calling things "hybrids." And, in fact, the GMT-900 Two-Mode flops were true hybrids. Now, "embraced the strategy," could be interpreted in many ways. Certainly, GM kept these losers on the market for a number of years and told us what a great strategy they were. What's missing there?

detfan: "and wrongly thought that BAS would be popular,"

Which is laughable because everybody else looked at the BAS vehicles and realized that prices higher than a $25K Camry hybrid which barely got you the fuel economy of a $19K Camry was a losing proposition.

detfan: "Voltec"

Flop.

detfan: "and diesel,"

The payback for purchasing that high-mileage Cruze diesel looks to be very close to never. GM priced it too high.

detfan: "and flex fuel are GM's only plays for higher mileage or less gas usage."

We still only have one E-85 pump here in town, although we've probably added 15K residents since this topic started. I have yet to see anyone using it (it's along one of my regular walk routes). Given the relative pricing of E-85 and the sucktastic fuel economy when running on E-85, it's no surprise that it's not a very popular pump.

detfan: "There isn't even much recent news on GM's hydrogen fuel cell program, so highly touted"

By Gm and by you.

detfan: "a few years ago with Project Driveway."

Toyota has announced their Fuel Cell vehicle will be available as a 2015 model. Looks like Toyota has figured out how to manufacture a fuel cell stack cost-effectively enough to get it into a real production car. Where's the Project Driveway thing, now?
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2014 12:07:44 PM

Weaslespit,

I'm certainly not going to guarantee that. After all, the OP has come roaring back with a new lameline comparison.

Hey, detfan,

1997 called. It wants to know where all these Volts that outsell the Prius are. It hasn't seen any on the roads.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2014 11:06:36 AM

"I was merely observing its birthday. And I couldn't keep it alive since without help."

Here's a promise Charlie - I won't post as long as you don't post.

Bottom-line.
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contiki
Champion Author Ontario

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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2014 10:49:57 AM

Some of the same arguments over and over again by the same posters......

Let this thread die with some respect, no one will ever agree.......

None of these posters will change their thinking any and it is showing...

Why keeping the argements going......

Some posters seem to like to argue but never achieve anything on this thread......same old stuff.............over and over again.......

It should have been dead a long time ago but the same old posters keep it alive by posting the same old arguments..........over and over again...

Let the thread die like it should have a while back, as nothing is gain by the same poster's arguments.......

I think some posters find this is their platform and don't want to lose it...

[Edited by: contiki at 4/10/2014 11:51:44 AM EST]
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2014 10:26:55 AM

"So then the entire segment is already a flop, since the Volt is at the top in sales since inception"

Notice the changing goal posts. WS use to crow about the Volt being the leader in sales, but now that the Volt sales are dropping while the competitions sales increase surpassing Volts sales, his definition of a "win" have changed to are sales since inception....

No matter, sine The Volt will probably be dropping in even this ranking in the near future...

BTW, what segment is he referencing? The EV segment, or the plug-in hybrid segment, since this too changes for him on the wind?
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2014 10:10:34 AM

"and obviously a flop,"

So then the entire segment is already a flop, since the Volt is at the top in sales since inception?

Or is this just another Volt-centric flame?
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2014 10:09:08 AM

"I think your claim that the Volt will go mainstream over the next few years is a bunch of ill informed speculation, much like the speculation about the GM hybrids you made which started this topic..."

Might want to re-read what he posted. He didn't say in the next few years, he said the next few generations.

Just sayin'...
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davisadm
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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2014 10:01:34 AM

detfan wrote - "...because just like the Prius, the Volt is a game changing technology halo car for GM, that should morph into mainstream over the next couple of generations, just like the Prius."

Some may consider it game changing, and it is because I, as a tax payer am subsidizing the sale of a car that much too expensive, and obviously a flop, seeing that the sales keep falling. I bet that if GM didn't need the Volt for their CAFE, it would have never been sold.
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2014 9:19:41 AM

"Shockjock, I am comparing the Volt to the Prius, because just like the Prius, the Volt is a game changing technology halo car for GM, that should morph into mainstream over the next couple of generations, just like the Prius."

For one, I have not stated you shouldn't compare the two.

Secondly, I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion you have when you DO copmpare the two.

The Volt sales are miserable and not getting better (in fact it has declined on month over month sales ever month this year so far), this despite the fact that the car loses GM money on every sale and relies HEAVILY on huge taxpayer handouts to achieve the meager sales it sees...

I think your claim that the Volt will go mainstream over the next few years is a bunch of ill informed speculation, much like the speculation about the GM hybrids you made which started this topic...

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detfan
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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2014 8:03:04 AM

Shockjock, I am comparing the Volt to the Prius, because just like the Prius, the Volt is a game changing technology halo car for GM, that should morph into mainstream over the next couple of generations, just like the Prius.

Anthing that is not ICE is a hybrid, but it can be claimed that the Volt is an electric car too, since the battery runs the wheels 100% of the time, unless the driver is breaking the law and exceeding speed limits.

Thank you for your question. Since GM has basically never embraced a true hybrid strategy, and wrongly thought that BAS would be popular, Voltec and diesel, and flex fuel are GM's only plays for higher mileage or less gas usage. There isn't even much recent news on GM's hydrogen fuel cell program, so highly touted a few years ago with Project Driveway. Plus with cellulosic ethanol not hitting the scene in a big way, e85 will continue to be controversial. I hope they are making strides in their fuel cell program, because competitors are getting close to opening up the market with hydrogen.
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detfan
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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2014 7:43:49 AM

With March sales in, Volterc continues to be the leader in the PHEV segment using all metrics, and only needs to sell 1,281 per month globally the rest of the year to stay ahead of the Prius same time line global sales pace. Voltec on U.S sales comparisons with the Prius PHEV maintains its real lead and has increased its same timeleine lead to 3,625 units. Global Voltec sales exceed the Prius PHEV, if you exclude the closed market, and home market of the Prius, Japan. In markets where all manufacturers are allowed to compete, Voltec is the global leader in sales.

We should be getting more information on the next gen Volt in the coming months as it gets closer and closer to launch. Another hefty price reduction, higher electric range, higher gas mileage when extender is operating, a modest new look, and 5th seat are presumed, but there is still much unknown and very little confirmed.

Still no confirmation on either an Equinox or Encore Plug-In that I have seen.
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pghbill
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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2014 11:16:34 PM

can't hurt
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2014 11:09:42 PM

"LOL - 'bumping' a thread to beat a dead horse."

I was merely observing its birthday. And I couldn't keep it alive since without help.

You want to keep the memory of GM's flops alive? Be my guest.

"You don't disparage any other GM models? Wanna re-think that comment too?"

Doesn't matter. This particular thread is principally about the GM's hybrids, all of which were major flops from the get-go and it was obvious to anybody paying attention that they would be flops and I have the satisfaction of being able to say, "I told you so," in each case.

"Consider this your reality check ;)"

Reality is, GM and their FanBois brag incessantly about GM's prowess, GM has blown hybrid/PHEV/whatnot offerings numerous times, succeeded not at all and their latest offering sold under 1500 units last month in spite of $7500 in help from the Feds and more from several states. GM has blown $billions for $nothing.
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2014 3:39:31 PM

>>I suppose you and the OP have been "enjoying" GM hybrids all along?<<
"You don't disparage any other GM models?"

Title of the topic?
"Here Come the GM Hybrids!!"

I didn't notice any "Here come the GM Conventionals" in the title as a point of debate...


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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2014 2:13:29 PM

"I shouldn't need to point this out to you but if the GM FanBois take the advice, "sit down and be quiet," it might just allow this thread, which should be extremely embarassing to the OP and to GM fans in general, the time in which to finally die. "

"Message Posted: Feb 17, 2014 12:14:00 PM

"Although we heard that "GM [was] getting in the game to dominate" just about 6 years ago this week, it looks like they've pretty much thrown in the towel."

LOL - 'bumping' a thread to beat a dead horse. Too funny, the habits of fanboys.

Flame-on!"

This was posted by me in response to a bump of the topic after 1 month of inactivity in the thread - seems to me those wanting to flame GM are the ones who should heed your advice. I wonder who it was that I was responding to here?

"I don't know. I just noticed it when I was totalling up what the kid's GM car has cost so far this year. For the original purchase price plus the repairs, he could have had a real car"

Indeed - they made some bad ones not that long ago (as evidenced by the current embarrassment GM is enduring for decisions made by past regimes).

"Thanks for naming two companies that don't brag endlessly about their hybrid products before they launch them."

So that is the only thing that seems to draw your ire - that somebody had the audacity to preemptively brag that they were going to beat your beloved Prius? And then the audacity of people like rkt who say how much they are enjoying their Volt! For Shame!

"I suppose you and the OP have been "enjoying" GM hybrids all along?

You don't disparage any other GM models? Wanna re-think that comment too?

Consider this your reality check ;)
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2014 1:24:51 PM

Weaslespit,

I shouldn't need to point this out to you but if the GM FanBois take the advice, "sit down and be quiet," it might just allow this thread, which should be extremely embarassing to the OP and to GM fans in general, the time in which to finally die.
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2014 1:19:23 PM

"Why your hard-on for GM?"

I don't know. I just noticed it when I was totalling up what the kid's GM car has cost so far this year. For the original purchase price plus the repairs, he could have had a real car.

"Where's Honda's competition? Chrysler's competition?"

Thanks for naming two companies that don't brag endlessly about their hybrid products before they launch them.

"You simply don't like people enjoying GM products "

I suppose you and the OP have been "enjoying" GM hybrids all along? That would make you part of a very elit group. And you, not so much, but the OP does enjoy trashing the Japanese when he sees the opportunity.

If you spill a lot of electrons admiring GM in public, don't act all surprised if people come along and post a reality check.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2014 12:22:01 PM

"Where's a car from GM that they can sell in even 5K unit/month volume without taxpayer assistance?"

Why your hard-on for GM?

"Where's the GM competition?"

Where's Honda's competition? Chrysler's competition?

"GM FanBois should sit down and keep quiet until their darling actually produces an advanced tech drivetrain car that sells without taxpayer help."

Here is the real reason for your posts. You simply don't like people enjoying GM products - for some reason it makes you see red such that you'll go to lengths to visit a gas price website daily to vent (yet not participate in the main function of the site)...
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2014 11:31:29 AM

Perspective:

We were out of town over the weekend. The Prius did over 500 miles at just over 56mpg. It has been almost 10 years since hybrids became commonplace, with the introduction of the highly successful 2005 Prius. Where's the GM competition? Where's a car from GM that they can sell in even 5K unit/month volume without taxpayer assistance?

My advice:

GM FanBois should sit down and keep quiet until their darling actually produces an advanced tech drivetrain car that sells without taxpayer help.
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2014 11:26:14 AM

Oh nooooo!!! Toyota recalls some cars!!!

They recalled my van last year for a possibly corroded cable holding the spare wheel up. It was 12 years old at the time and I asked the tech about my old cable. It was not corroded. The tech added, "They never are."

My Prius got recalled recently and Toyota reflashed the programming while they changed the oil. Not quite the major disaster some would like it to seem.

I don't know what these new recalls are about, I don't care and neither will almost all Toyota owners; they have learned over the past 30-40 years that Toyota will work to make sure the cars provide satisfaction and bring the customer back when he wants a new vehicle.

By way of comparison, two of the extended family members have GM cars, a final year Saturn and a final model year Cavalier. Those two cars coughed up more problems and sucked down far more repair cash than all the "Japanese" cars in the rest of the family put together, including Toyotas that are a lot older with a lot more miles. And that's before the new ignition switch recall crisis is factored in.

Still, let's go with something even more on topic... How's that "dominate" plan going for GM?

Who's dominating this segment?

Since the topic was launched, GM has launched and lost money on a dozen or more models, mostly now abandoned, and has nothing to show for it. There's no question it's hard to knock Toyota off the throne but GM's performance has been extra pathetic, especially considering the amount of bragging that went into each development and the number of times El Lutzbo told us how they were going to school Toyota.

Their latest and greatest, the ELR, is gathering dust on dealer lots. GM built a number of special editions for their Saks Christmas promotion and they're still waiting for buyers.

The Volt seems to be looking at a slow sales decline, in spite of the unprecedented $7500 per vehicle in Federal sugar to help move each one. There's $1.2 billion in development down the tubes. And the amount of bragging that went with that launch was unprecedented, too.

Toyota does badly in that space, too, but they do badly with less Federal cash and without dropping a $billion in development. A beachhead for peanuts. Smart.

Meanwhile, Ford has introduced only 5 models and has almost 8 times GM's market share in hybrids. Ford's market share in plug-ins is greater than GM's, too, using the same basic cars that it's using to contest the hybrid space. Ford hasn't knocked Toyota off the top but at least they're playing it smart.

[Edited by: Charlie_H at 4/9/2014 12:27:27 PM EST]
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detfan
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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2014 7:30:56 AM

Hey contiki, the Prius was in the recall, thus making it germane to this board. However, since you posted, I will be more specific.. The Toyota Prius has had recalls on every model year since entering the United States. The Chevy Volt has had only one recall since it has entered the marketplace and that was only for 7 weeks of production of 2012 model affecting only 2,117 models.

Is that on topic enough?

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rumbleseat
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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2014 7:23:13 AM

"stay on topic"

How come it is okay for the Toyota KookAid drinkers to come into the thread and post stuff about Toyota, but it is suddenly off-topic when it becomes evident Toyota has more problems?
I am sure I would rush right down to buy a Toyota with starter problems that keep the engine running, occasionally resulting in fires.
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contiki
Champion Author Ontario

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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2014 6:12:59 AM

Toyota announced five recalls on Wednesday, affecting a total of 6.39 million vehicles globally.
The recalls cover 27 Toyota (TM) models -- including Camry, Corolla, Matrix and Highlander -- the Pontiac Vibe and the Subaru Trezia. Some of the vehicles were made as early as 2004.

What does this have to do with the topic....Here Come the GM Hybrids!!....

Nothing at all...stay on topic..................

[Edited by: contiki at 4/9/2014 7:13:46 AM EST]
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detfan
Champion Author Tallahassee

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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2014 6:10:38 AM

Toyota continues to hold the mantle of most recalled car manufacturer on the planet with this latest debacle:(only posting here because Prius recall is mentioned.(Meanwhile my 2008 Malibu 6 cyl. LTZ is among the now very few models on the road without a recall!)
-----

Toyota announced five recalls on Wednesday, affecting a total of 6.39 million vehicles globally.
The recalls cover 27 Toyota (TM) models -- including Camry, Corolla, Matrix and Highlander -- the Pontiac Vibe and the Subaru Trezia. Some of the vehicles were made as early as 2004.

Toyota plans to inspect and, if necessary, replace parts including seat rails, steering column brackets, engine starters, windshield wiper motors and air bag cables, the company said in a statement.
The announcement affects around 2 million vehicles in North America, which may be experiencing problems with an air bag cable and seat rails.
"Toyota is not aware of any crashes, injuries or fatalities caused by these conditions," the company said.
Shares in Toyota fell as much as 4.9% Wednesday before closing 3% down in Tokyo. The stock has tumbled more than 15% so far this year.
The world's biggest automaker sold nearly 10 million vehicles last year.
This is its second major global recall of 2014, and the latest in a series of quality control headaches.
In February, Toyota recalled 2.1 million Prius, RAV4, Tacoma and Lexus vehicles, because of a software problem that could cause the cars to stop suddenly.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2014 12:15:02 PM

Gotta love a good, one-sided flame war! Such small thinking...
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2014 12:10:24 PM

Sure, after a $4,500 price cut, $2,500 Federal giveback plus State incentives - I sure hope it would be more competitive!

Is that Federal giveback for the Prius the same size as the one the Volt gets? No? Like $5K less? And did the Volt get its own $5K price cut? And does the Volt sport rebates to the dealers (which enables Keyes in CA to list them for up to $4500 off)? And cash to cusotmers? GM really is into that "we lose money on every one" business plan for the Volt.

By the way, HOV stickers for the Volt, for which the PHV was not eligible and could be considered to be worth up to $10K, are now fading away. I think we can safely assume this will not help Volt sales.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2014 8:46:58 AM

"An extra $5K in Federal givebacks helped GM move 26 more Volts than the Prius PHV, for the win!"

Sure, after a $4,500 price cut, $2,500 Federal giveback plus State incentives - I sure hope it would be more competitive!

Flame-on, fanboy!
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