Not Logged In Log In   Sign Up   Points Leaders
Follow Us    6:40 AM

GasBuddy News Article

71
votes
How Improved Batteries Will Make Electric Vehicles Competitive

MIT Press, technology review -- There are plenty of reasons why electric cars aren’t catching on, but one problem is certain: the batteries cost far too much.

For electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids to compete with gas-powered cars, battery prices need to drop by between 50 and 80 percent, according to recent estimates by the U.S. Department of Energy. Getting there might require inventing entirely new kinds of batteries, but there’s also a strong case that improvements to the lithium-ion batteries that power the current generation of electric vehicles may be enough.
The United States could have the capacity by 2015 to produce enough battery packs for 500,000 cars. But this year, due to high prices, plug-in vehicle sales won’t even reach a tenth of that in the United States. As a result, advanced battery makers


Read the Full Article

Submitted Nov 11, 2012 By: NHLiveFree
Category: Daily News Article Discussions > Topics Add to favorite topics  
Author Topic: How Improved Batteries Will Make Electric Vehicles Competitive Back to Topics
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
Profile Pic
honda0105
Champion Author Tallahassee

Posts:22,491
Points:2,121,115
Joined:Nov 2008
Message Posted: Nov 14, 2012 4:40:34 AM

could work nicely in highly polluted metropolitan areas.
Profile Pic
DanMtz
Champion Author Oakland

Posts:5,693
Points:1,753,490
Joined:Oct 2009
Message Posted: Nov 12, 2012 5:04:02 PM

They will still be a niche product, which I suppose is fine.
Profile Pic
ktyson13
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:2,128
Points:647,640
Joined:Aug 2010
Message Posted: Nov 12, 2012 4:02:31 PM

Ok
Profile Pic
MAC48
Champion Author Dallas

Posts:3,187
Points:1,239,160
Joined:Dec 2006
Message Posted: Nov 12, 2012 2:47:13 PM

While this article points out possible improvements on the horizon to battery technology that will improve the overall cost of electric vehicles, the author ignores the other transportation requirements that are equal to if not more important than the purchase price that will keep EVs in the very narrow niche that they occupy in todays automotive market.

When EVs can get 450 plus miles on one charge and recharge the batteries in 25/30 minutes or less without any degradation in future battery performance and carry six adults comfortably and there are as many recharging stations as there are gas stations today and the cost of an electric vehicle is the same as a comparable internal combustion engine powered vehicle and can tow a 30 foot travel trailer and can haul 1,500 to 2,000 lbs of people/bags/pets/etcetara and electric vehicles are available in the size vehicle that meets all family transportation needs, then EVs will have a fighting chance to significantly increase market share.

Until all of these capability requirements are met, we have absolutely no use for an electric vehicle and neither will 85% of the US population. Very few one or two vehicle families are going to put 50% to 100% of their entire annual transportation budget into a vehicle that fails so miserably to meet ALL of their real world transportation needs.
Profile Pic
RivGasDude
Champion Author Riverside

Posts:10,495
Points:2,180,715
Joined:May 2008
Message Posted: Nov 12, 2012 12:49:57 PM

Great points Wolfman_TJack! EV's are the way of the future.
Profile Pic
prcoqui
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:5,406
Points:2,024,720
Joined:Dec 2006
Message Posted: Nov 12, 2012 10:09:11 AM

More R&D is needed.
Profile Pic
crep1291
Champion Author Ottawa

Posts:3,137
Points:543,910
Joined:Dec 2010
Message Posted: Nov 12, 2012 8:47:10 AM

Battery prices are on their way down, even with only incremental technology upgrades, while oil prices are creeping up even during the second worst economic disaster the world has seen in modern age. Unless the US and China go through another major economic downturn, I see battery costs becoming competitive with oil in a few years from now.
Profile Pic
OTISFL
Champion Author Pensacola

Posts:5,993
Points:1,160,510
Joined:Apr 2009
Message Posted: Nov 12, 2012 5:58:55 AM

Still too much $$$ a long ways to go before I buy one. Not about to stop every 40 miles and sit and rechage. Good for city driving and that's about all unless no one is in a hurry to get to a far away location.
Profile Pic
skippypa
Champion Author Hawaii

Posts:10,827
Points:2,252,180
Joined:Jun 2008
Message Posted: Nov 12, 2012 5:32:55 AM

If the price comes down!!
Profile Pic
yardslave
Champion Author Oklahoma City

Posts:4,923
Points:1,107,545
Joined:Dec 2005
Message Posted: Nov 12, 2012 5:02:09 AM

Too much $$$$$
Profile Pic
Amtrgas
Champion Author Oakland

Posts:2,780
Points:2,051,265
Joined:Dec 2007
Message Posted: Nov 12, 2012 12:08:32 AM

The problems with batteries is the last hurdle that keeps EV from going Mainstream.
Profile Pic
Wolfman_TJack
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:4,912
Points:968,020
Joined:Feb 2012
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:31:52 PM

The following tips may be helpful to consumers when considering an electric vehicle:

Drivers with predictable, unwavering daily driving requirements are the best candidates for all-electric vehicles.

If your driving requirements are variable, consider a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle that provides pure electric driving for shorter distances, but can handle a longer trip without recharging, if necessary, by utilizing the gasoline-powered back-up engine.

Be sure to investigate potential federal or state tax incentives associated with an electric vehicle purchase. These incentives may vary, depending on the make and model selected. Also, ask your local utility company about special EV battery-charging programs and special rate programs that may be available.

The U.S. Department of Energy offers maps that show the locations of charging stations through the country. There are 10,309 alternative fuel stations in the United States.

Click on this link for Alternative Fueling Station Locator

Click on the above link that offers a zoom-able map.

Profile Pic
Wolfman_TJack
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:4,912
Points:968,020
Joined:Feb 2012
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:27:35 PM

The batteries in electric drive vehicles are designed to last for the expected lifetime of the vehicle. The Toyota Prius HEV, which has been sold in the United States since 2001, has had less than 0.003% battery failures (source: HybridCars.com). Several manufacturers offer 8-year/100,000 mile warranties for their EV and PHEV batteries.

Maintenance costs for electric drive vehicles are as much as 50% lower than traditional gasoline vehicles, thanks to fewer fluids to change, significantly reduced brake wear due to regenerative braking, and far fewer moving parts. (Source: Center for Automotive Research, http://bit.ly/L07he8 and US Department of Energy, http://bit.ly/QBLmGY)
Profile Pic
Wolfman_TJack
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:4,912
Points:968,020
Joined:Feb 2012
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:25:17 PM

EVs are safe.

According to the National Fire Protection Agency, there were an estimated 184,500 conventional highway vehicle fires in 2010, and 31,000 other non-highway vehicle (equipment) fires. In the extremely rare incidents where a fire has involved an EV, no findings of any relationship to the electric drive components have been found. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration thoroughly examined the safety of EVs in accidents and found no real-world electric vehicle crashes that resulted in battery-related fires. (Source: National Fire Protection Agency, http://bit.ly/N3fEBG; National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, http://1.usa.gov/TJJ5xC)

Safety Requirements

Electric drive vehicles undergo the same rigorous safety testing as conventional vehicles sold in the United States and must meet the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. The exception is neighborhood electric vehicles, which are subject to less-stringent standards because they are typically limited to roadways specified by state and local regulations.

HEVs, PHEVs, and EVs have high-voltage electrical systems that range from 100 to 600 volts. Their battery packs are encased in sealed shells and meet testing standards that subject batteries to conditions such as overcharge, vibration, extreme temperatures, short circuit, humidity, fire, collision, and water immersion. Manufacturers design these vehicles with insulated high-voltage lines and safety features that deactivate the electrical system when they detect a collision or short circuit. EVs tend to have a lower center of gravity than conventional vehicles, making them less likely to roll over.

Emergency Response and Training

Emergency response for electric drive vehicles is not significantly different from conventional vehicles. Electric drive vehicles are designed with cutoff switches to isolate the battery and disable the electric system, and all high-voltage power lines are colored orange.

Manufacturers publish emergency response guides for their vehicles and offer training for emergency responders. The National Fire Protection Association has training and information resources available at evsafetytraining.org. Find a list of education and training programs with contact information in Electric Vehicle Workforce Education & First-Responder Training Programs.

[Edited by: Wolfman_TJack at 11/12/2012 12:26:34 AM EST]
Profile Pic
Wolfman_TJack
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:4,912
Points:968,020
Joined:Feb 2012
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:24:01 PM

unplug. uncar.

Introducing the all-new smart electric drive. Agile. Safe. An incredibly fun-to-drive electric car. And, it’s exceptionally environmentally friendly. MSRP is $25,000 before any tax credits.*

drive for miles.
The smart electric drive can fit perfectly into your lifestyle. A single battery charge gives you enough energy for spontaneous trips.

In addition, during braking the electric motor works as a generator that converts part of the surplus kinetic energy into electrical energy. It then flows back into the battery, ultimately increasing the range of this electric car for longer jaunts.

it's in our genes.
The electric drive shares smart’s entire innovative safety concept designed by the forward-thinking safety pioneers at Mercedes-Benz. Active and passive safety systems offer maximum protection. And, the positioning of the battery in the vehicle underbody offers the best possible protection in the event of a collision.

Profile Pic
Wolfman_TJack
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:4,912
Points:968,020
Joined:Feb 2012
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:23:19 PM

Jul 24th 2012 5:24PM

Ford C-Max Energi pricing: $29,995 after a federal tax credit, available this fall.

Ford already spilled the beans on its $25,995 C-Max Hybrid (shown in the vid just after the break), but those anxiously awaiting more surrounding the C-Max Energi can finally start saving a precise amount of pennies. The automaker's first production plug-in hybrid will go on sale this autumn for $29,995 after a federal tax credit, and according to Ford, that's "more affordable than the Prius plug-in hybrid." For those in need of a memory jar, the Energi is expected to deliver 550 miles of total range, representing a 95 mpg equivalent (MPGe) and an electric-only top speed higher than the Prius plug-in. As the Prius bashing continues, Ford is also quick to point out that its Energi will boast 60 more horsepower than Toyota's rival. Those intrigued can visit the source links to see the newly launched "build-and-price" website for the car, and those who reside in the state of California will likely qualify for an extra $1,500 in tax credits.
Profile Pic
quasar502
Champion Author Lansing

Posts:5,767
Points:1,288,530
Joined:Jan 2011
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:22:38 PM

Good batteries are absolutely key.
Profile Pic
Wolfman_TJack
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:4,912
Points:968,020
Joined:Feb 2012
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:22:33 PM

Fox News' Bill O'Reilly claimed on Friday that electric cars cost "300,000 bucks," adding that while he is "for" electric cars "they've got to get it down for the regular folks." But O'Reilly is clearly working with outdated information.

Check out the prices for these 100% electric vehicles (including the federal tax credit):

2012 Mitsubishi i: $21,625
2012 Nissan Leaf: $27,700
2012 Ford Focus Electric: $31,700
2013 Honda Fit EV: $29,125
There are also plug-in hybrids like the Chevy Volt ($31,645) and the Toyota Prius Plugin Hybrid ($32,000).

These price tags are a far cry from the hundreds of thousands of dollars O'Reilly thinks you need to have to get behind the wheel of an electric car, not to mention the benefit to households of being significantly less vulnerable to inevitable oil price shocks.

This is not the first time O'Reilly has misinformed his audience about the accessibility of clean tech. In November, O'Reilly claimed that there is "no one" on Long Island who installs residential wind or solar systems. But as we pointed out and O'Reilly later conceded, there is a long list of companies in the area that do just that.

Profile Pic
Wolfman_TJack
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:4,912
Points:968,020
Joined:Feb 2012
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:18:41 PM

There are eight models of electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles that retail for under $32,000. (Source: Media Matters, http://bit.ly/HN06Vy, http://engt.co/R6dmHv, http://bit.ly/OKTEB4).

By comparison, the average price of a car purchased in the United States in April 2012 was approximately $30,000. (Source: True Car, http://bit.ly/PLVmzl )
Profile Pic
Wolfman_TJack
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:4,912
Points:968,020
Joined:Feb 2012
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:17:49 PM

Average price of new car sales transaction hits $30,748, an all-time record.

If you've looked into purchasing a new car recently, we likely don't need to tell you prices are plenty lofty. According to TrueCar.com's data, the average selling price of a new car sold here in the U.S. last month was $30,748, marking an all-time record (last year's figure was just $28,771). While buyers are currently looking toward smaller, less expensive and more fuel-efficient models, overall vehicle sales have jumped ahead of the rest of the slowly recovering economy. In addition, manufacturers are keeping production more in line with demand, resulting in significantly scaled-back incentives.

As a result, the average transaction price has inched skyward even in the face of an uncertain economy and escalating fuel prices. In addition, small cars now carry significantly more content than before and prices to match, and crossovers just keep getting more and more popular. Buyers have proven none too wary of optioning B and C-segment vehicles well above MSRPs typically seen on mid-sized fare, and used car fleets are thin, raising prices and pushing buyers toward new cars instead. According to CNW Marketing, consumers now routinely option a vehicle to within 86 percent of the fully loaded cost.

Profile Pic
defiancegasman
Champion Author Ohio

Posts:7,188
Points:1,355,355
Joined:May 2006
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:17:20 PM

SURE
Profile Pic
Wolfman_TJack
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:4,912
Points:968,020
Joined:Feb 2012
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:13:27 PM

Idling Facts

Drivers idle for a variety of reasons, such as to keep vehicles warm, operate radios, or power equipment. Each year, U.S. passenger cars, light trucks, medium-duty trucks, and heavy-duty vehicles consume more than 6 billion gallons of diesel fuel and gasoline—without even moving. Roughly half of that fuel is wasted by passenger vehicles.

Medium-duty trucks use about 2.5 billion gallons of fuel to idle each year, or 6.7% of the total fuel they consume.

More than 650,000 long-haul heavy-duty trucks idle overnight for required rest stops at least some fraction of the time, using more than 685 million gallons of fuel per year.
Profile Pic
LV_Mike1
Veteran Author Las Vegas

Posts:296
Points:53,110
Joined:Aug 2003
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:12:05 PM

Yeah....maybe I'll get the EV1 back! Can't wait.
Profile Pic
vulcan96
Champion Author Ohio

Posts:27,181
Points:3,133,135
Joined:Aug 2004
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:11:53 PM

repeat
Profile Pic
crreed1
Champion Author West Virginia

Posts:4,157
Points:2,993,865
Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:10:44 PM

ok
Profile Pic
Quick68
Champion Author Columbus

Posts:11,471
Points:1,737,050
Joined:Dec 2009
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:10:19 PM

You can't Improved Electric Vehicles.
Profile Pic
a14morfun
Champion Author Ontario

Posts:13,923
Points:2,476,190
Joined:Jul 2005
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:09:21 PM

Git 'er done!
Profile Pic
Wolfman_TJack
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:4,912
Points:968,020
Joined:Feb 2012
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:09:14 PM

Energy efficient. Electric vehicles convert about 59–62% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels—conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 17–21% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels.
Profile Pic
N5EXY
Champion Author Austin

Posts:7,839
Points:2,019,520
Joined:Jul 2004
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:08:20 PM

Lotsa room for improvement. They might be good for routine commuting, back and forth to work with a charge in between the back and the forth.
Profile Pic
Zonk
Champion Author Michigan

Posts:8,784
Points:2,604,950
Joined:Oct 2005
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:07:50 PM

Nothing electric in my future.
Profile Pic
bearzz
Champion Author California

Posts:3,723
Points:913,700
Joined:Mar 2011
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:06:27 PM

It did seem that they needed improvement.
Profile Pic
boatfloyd
Champion Author Jacksonville

Posts:4,097
Points:898,640
Joined:Mar 2012
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:05:07 PM

I wish they would improve the batteries sooner then later.
Profile Pic
Wolfman_TJack
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:4,912
Points:968,020
Joined:Feb 2012
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:03:38 PM

A nation of innovation.
Profile Pic
pgerassi
Champion Author Milwaukee

Posts:13,249
Points:2,640,265
Joined:Apr 2007
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:03:24 PM

Top balanced batteries are expensive and complex. Bottom balancing is quite cheap and simple. You need a bit more weight, 2-5%, but save thousands of dollars and have a lot more reliability.
Profile Pic
rahcat
Champion Author Grand Rapids

Posts:5,040
Points:1,173,200
Joined:Jan 2010
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:02:39 PM

Don't want one.
Profile Pic
Math6149
Champion Author Jacksonville

Posts:1,124
Points:2,238,015
Joined:Jan 2007
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 11:02:04 PM

Just makes it harder to get rid of the old battery.
Profile Pic
NemoIL
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:5,077
Points:1,778,370
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 10:58:06 PM

That is at least 20 years away.
Profile Pic
Thomtec
Champion Author Nashville

Posts:4,773
Points:1,117,205
Joined:May 2011
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 10:57:08 PM

This is years away, folks.
Profile Pic
libertyut
Champion Author Utah

Posts:1,382
Points:299,265
Joined:Mar 2012
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 10:55:14 PM

It has already been proven that ev's are worse on the enviroment.
Profile Pic
Dodge_Me
Champion Author Atlanta

Posts:2,222
Points:942,940
Joined:Mar 2006
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 10:55:08 PM

Cool
Profile Pic
tidalwave3
Champion Author Tallahassee

Posts:2,420
Points:1,938,245
Joined:Jun 2008
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 10:54:59 PM

Hydrogen power
Profile Pic
PizzaMon
Champion Author Philadelphia

Posts:6,344
Points:2,343,455
Joined:Jun 2006
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 10:51:21 PM

The only way that EVs will sell to the public.
Profile Pic
dabbadu
Champion Author New York

Posts:1,056
Points:1,047,455
Joined:Feb 2011
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 10:49:55 PM

Slow but steady progress.
Profile Pic
nwsynthetics
Champion Author Oregon

Posts:1,128
Points:503,810
Joined:Dec 2011
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 10:48:23 PM

go for it
Profile Pic
rjoeh
Champion Author Michigan

Posts:9,411
Points:2,979,475
Joined:Jun 2004
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 10:46:34 PM

Range is one issue that hold me and many potential owners of EV's away from the market place. We drive to much in single runs for an EV to be an option. Hybrids are a little better... but lack much of the comfort and power we are used to under normal gasoline options.
Profile Pic
Bubba44612
Champion Author Ohio

Posts:9,656
Points:2,382,100
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 10:43:51 PM

Bring on hydrogen power.
Profile Pic
suzmar
Champion Author Texas

Posts:3,497
Points:1,328,615
Joined:Jun 2006
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 10:43:44 PM

Blah, Blah, Blah, electric vehicles are not competitive and won't be for the foreseeable future. A study will come out that they are worse for the environment than traditional vehicles.
Profile Pic
blazerbob91
Champion Author Milwaukee

Posts:7,077
Points:2,357,505
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 10:42:46 PM

Batteries for my flash light are to expensive
Profile Pic
NashGas
Champion Author Nashville

Posts:3,569
Points:836,480
Joined:Dec 2009
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 10:42:41 PM

Nice!
Profile Pic
jrsva
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:12,402
Points:2,123,250
Joined:Jan 2006
Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 10:39:33 PM


“. . . electric cars will become a viable alternative when batteries become obsolete.”

That’s an interesting observation; care to elaborate PDQ?
Post a reply Back to Topics