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Wastewater Becomes Issue in Debate on Gas Drilling

nytimes.com -- ..Niagara Falls water utility seized on a new moneymaking idea last year: treat toxic waste from natural-gas drilling at its sewage-treatment plant once hydrofracking gets under way in New York State.

Accepting the waste would both offset the drop in revenue and help keep water rates down for customers in the economically strapped region..

But the thought of having fracking fluids trucked into the city, treated and discharged into the Niagara River frightened local residents, many of whom still recall the Love Canal environmental crisis of the 1970s. In a unanimous vote, the Niagara Falls City Council blocked the plan ..banning the treatment, transport, storage and disposal of drilling fluids within city limits.

“We’re not going to deal with this again — a chemical disaster,” said


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Submitted May 06, 2012 By: teafortwo
Category: Daily News Article Discussions > Topics Add to favorite topics  
Author Topic: Wastewater Becomes Issue in Debate on Gas Drilling Back to Topics
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drpepperTX
Champion Author Texas

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Message Posted: May 11, 2012 4:56:24 PM

"With fracking causing earthquakes?
Consider how many fracking wells that might not have previously caused any issues; but may become cracked and start leaking as the result of the earthquakes?"
=============================
Interesting hypothesis but without a source of credible evidence of fracing having caused earthquakes, it's just that, hypothesis. I wonder what magnitude quake it would take make a well "crack"? And millions of wells whether fracced or conventional have been drilled, never heard of one of those being "cracked" by an earthquake. Perhaps someone knows of a credible source?

And is there even conclusive and irrefutable evidence of fracing induced earthquakes, perhaps a credible source of that could be provided.
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teafortwo
Champion Author Washington

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Message Posted: May 11, 2012 4:42:05 PM


CdnLynx; excellent post and excellent points.

When considering "accidental" contamination of our water supply?

With fracking causing earthquakes?
Consider how many fracking wells that might not have previously caused any issues; but may become cracked and start leaking as the result of the earthquakes?

Contaminated water is contaminated water whether it is intentional or not :0|
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CdnLynx
Champion Author Ontario

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Message Posted: May 8, 2012 11:51:33 PM

I will also post to your whitebrd, in case this forum stops

http://pubs.usgs.gov/sir/2008/5059/section4.html

USGS - Estimated Depth to Ground Water and Configuration of the Water Table

The above usgs site talks about the southern slope of larch mountain (probably the deepest U.S groundwater) that is just over 1200 ft depth to groundwater; it does seem that most groundwater is above that level during my quick perusal of that site; maybe this is where you got your info.
Water is critical to humanity far more important then oil and other fuels.
All substances percolate down to groundwater and it does not take much to contaminate the worlds largest supply of fresh/potable water.
I realize that oil industry does not deliberately drill into aquifers; however urge continued diligent caution. Hydrology as any science is never exact; mistakes are always possible; now with that, a small vein may go unnoticed and then then an oil well may accidentally intercede into an aquifer.
Another good site (includes info on fracturing) http://water.usgs.gov/ogw/
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drpepperTX
Champion Author Texas

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Message Posted: May 8, 2012 10:28:57 AM

CdnLynx, "there is the distinct possibility that some of that soup will undoubtedly mix/contaminate the vast ground waters contained deep underground."
========================================
It would be an extremly rare case that ground water would be any deeper than 1000'. And even if that rarity were present, wells are not drilled into that water.
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CdnLynx
Champion Author Ontario

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Message Posted: May 7, 2012 11:22:35 PM

My concern with the fracking solution; is the amount recovered and its subsequent treatment/cleaning within municipal water treatment facilities.
Not all that fracking solution that has been forced into the depths will ever be recovered; there is the distinct possibility that some of that soup will undoubtedly mix/contaminate the vast ground waters contained deep underground. For instance Hexamine is both water soluble and a carcinogenic and is not suitable to the human body, as with many others listed.
The proper pursuit of energy is very noble; however not at the expense of water. We may eventually find alternatives to our energy woes; water on the other hand is critical to humanity and its survival!
Fracking is a process that should be scrutinized, until such time, it can be proved without a doubt that it is harmless to the environment and the planets inhabitants.
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drpepperTX
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Message Posted: May 7, 2012 6:02:55 PM

Especially for you teafertwo and PDQ:

I just went to the Fracfocus site and the first page of the search for wells had this listed as the latest well recorded,by the way there's no diesel used in this one and of the hundreds I've looked at I have not seen diesel used. Could it be that Oblame-a is just spouting off to look good to his enviro buddies? Just asking?

Here's the well info:

Total Water Volume (gal)*: 2,474,850
True Vertical Depth (TVD): 7,340
Production Type: GAS
Long/Lat Projection: NAD27
Latitude: 32.690344
Longitude: -97.316614
Well Name and Number: WATSON SOUTH 2H
Operator Name: CHESAPEAKE
API Number: 4243935796
County: TARRANT
State: TEXAS

Hydraulic Fracturing Fluid Composition:

Fresh Water 89.79%
Ottawa Sand 9.10%
Crystalline Silica (Quartz Sand, Silicon) 0.50811%
Phenol/Formaldehyde Resin 0.02619%
Hexamethylenetetramine (Hexamine) 0.00524%
Water 0.39966%
Hydrogen Chloride 0.07053%
Methanol (Methyl Alcohol) 0.00065%
Aliphatic acid 0.00049%
Aliphatic alcohols, ethoxylated 0.00049%
Sodium Erythorbate 0.00042%
Carbohydrate polymer 0.01097%
Petroleum Distillate Hydrotreated Light 0.02099%
Aliphatic alcohol polyglycol ether 0.00105%
Ammonium Persulfate 0.00053%
Chlorine Dioxide 0.00056%

Sodium Polycarboxylate TRADE SECRET 0.01922%

And surprise, surprise and looky there! The trade secret aka "secret sauce" by the fear mongerers is listed right there!

See that PDQ and teafertwo!

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drpepperTX
Champion Author Texas

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Message Posted: May 7, 2012 8:28:39 AM

Oh dear, it sure got quiet here.
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DandyDapple
All-Star Author North Dakota

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:22:31 PM

OMG 2012 ...
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drpepperTX
Champion Author Texas

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 8:56:52 PM

PDQ is spreading more bull feces and lies! LOL!

Fracfocus lists the chemicals used right here

Poor PDQ, for one who claims to rely on science, PDQ's research skills are sorely lacking! LMAO.
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PDQBlues
Champion Author San Diego

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 8:26:44 PM

"But the thought of having fracking fluids trucked into the city, treated and discharged into the Niagara River frightened local residents, many of whom still recall the Love Canal environmental crisis of the 1970s."

And they have every reason to be concerned about these fracking fluids. Even the site that drpepperTX claims that lists in full disclosure all the chemicals used in fracking only lists WATER. The other listing are just generalities, such as "surfactants." Truly a piece of deception.

Check for yourself:

http://fracfocus.org/water-protection/drilling-usage

http://fracfocus.org/sites/default/files/chemical-in-fracing-chart.jpg
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LetemEatCake
Champion Author Oklahoma City

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 6:57:49 PM


Well thought out points PlaytimeCLE!

To quote TomT2Lee..."Human nature is to do nothing until it is to late."
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my2002m
Champion Author Tulsa

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 6:26:54 PM

What is the issue if its treated? If they aren't treating it before its released then I see that there is a problem.
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TomT2Lee
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 5:56:01 PM

Human nature is to do nothing until it is to late.
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leraar2
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 4:46:11 PM

pollution is forever.
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ktbaeohana
Champion Author Las Vegas

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 3:35:01 PM

WATCH AND SEE, NOT GOOD.
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sivart
Champion Author Arkansas

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 2:52:06 PM

Huh....
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fuel2use
Champion Author Seattle

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 1:30:02 PM

Good points.
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MidNJ
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 11:31:24 AM

Many believe that heaven is up in the sky and hell down below.

My question is why is it that so many continue to look to the depths of the earth for our future energy and not the skys and sun?
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fedupMN
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 10:45:26 AM

"drill baby drill" is the war cry of the TEApublicans and they could care less if it hurts the environment. Rather then "Drill baby Drill" it is "Greed baby Greed"
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playtimeCLE
Champion Author Cleveland

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 10:23:08 AM

There are a lot of places in this country where no one would care if there treatment plants took on some frack water. But there are also some places in this country that you just can't take a chance. An international treasure like Niagara Falls is one of them. How many of you have even been there to see it? I have been there in every season and in fact was there last month.
Doing a quick Google map search for Niagara water treatment plants, I found nearly all of them to be upstream from the falls. I'm sure none of us really want one of the best waterfalls on earth to be accidently damaged by frack water. This just doesn't make much sense.
I'm sure we will hear people say that the treatment water wont make a difference. Have you ever had a bad day at work? would you want a water treatment plant upstream of Niagara Falls to have a bad day with frack water? This is just not a good idea.
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sljbc475
Champion Author Tucson

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 10:01:59 AM

I do not believe that the companies will have a tanker nearby to transport the waste water to a waste-water treatment facility.
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TXRanger09
Champion Author Dallas

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:53:53 AM

Researchers also found that less than 20% of newspaper articles on hydraulic fracturing mention scientific research related to the issue. Similarly, only 25% of broadcast news stories examined made reference to scientific studies, and about 33% of online news coverage mentioned scientific research on the issue.----

Could the public just hear/read more science?
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flahusky
All-Star Author Florida

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:47:15 AM

Make the Board of Directors drink a few glasses to prove how safe it is.
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JR57CA
All-Star Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:46:56 AM

This is trouble waiting to happen!!! And that's not the only consequence - the "fracking" process undermines the integrity of the foundation of a very large area, causing unstable ground.
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ErnieK9LO
Champion Author North Dakota

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:46:37 AM

Spotted owl syndrone
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Travel1st
Champion Author Las Vegas

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:45:51 AM

Agree.
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Tucker1961
Champion Author Seattle

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:45:40 AM

good
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BigBearHug
Champion Author Amarillo

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:45:31 AM

distil it
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APlus
Champion Author San Antonio

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:44:37 AM

Protect the environment
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TXRanger09
Champion Author Dallas

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:44:22 AM

Wish some genius out there could tell us all what the hell is in the fracking fluid. Read some articles regarding the oil companies secret fracking mixture as a trade secret. No, sorry, if water treatment plants have to clean/treat the waste water from their business, they need to know what their up against. And personally, I want to know whats being dumped in my water up stream.
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buckets42
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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:16:26 AM

Frack baby frack.
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fowlcan
Champion Author Oklahoma City

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:15:39 AM

Drilling = Waste Water
It needs to be monitored to a high degree by a continuous, strict,daily,independent,qualified group of scientifically trained people.
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Track79
All-Star Author Maine

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 8:42:23 AM

ugh
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bvrbill
Champion Author Eugene

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 8:41:57 AM

Buck_on_Bass is right. Maybe this city council should outlaw the use of cars, as the exhaust is a pollutant. Of course, then who would clean up the horse dropping?
This is just another case of political posturing.
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Jeffro61
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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 8:37:34 AM

Ok
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gassy4u
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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 8:37:21 AM

They'll figure it out.
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leemun
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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 8:34:09 AM

Hysteria strikes again.
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dlemma
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 8:32:31 AM

TOTALLY DIFFERENT from the Love Canal situation.

Gasbuddies need to study up on what fracking actually is, and what real studies say.

Or, better still, talk to a petroleum engineer who can give you the facts.

University of Texas Study on Fracturing

In the EPA studies, consistently the scientists do NOT follow traditional scientific steps to study it - other scientists have found this to be true over and over.
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Old Timer
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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 8:32:06 AM

Need to protect our water supply!
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Somis1
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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 8:30:21 AM

The waste water needs to be handled, that's for sure.
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Buck_on_Bass
Champion Author Tennessee

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 8:29:34 AM

If cities and towns are not interested in participating in the proper disposal of drilling waste, perhaps they should reconsider the use of the the products coming from those wells.

[Edited by: Buck_on_Bass at 5/6/2012 9:30:22 AM EST]
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vcsuksu21
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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 8:28:49 AM

ok
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gasman50
Champion Author Portland

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 8:28:23 AM

Too bad, sounds like a good plan
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LuthierKS
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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 8:27:48 AM

The same people who voted "no" are going to be the first to complain that the waste water isn't being treated and reused. Businesses cannot win in this Marxist environment.
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OOXXFF
Champion Author Greensboro

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 8:27:42 AM

We should approach this subject with caution.
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Spirits
All-Star Author Florida

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 8:26:32 AM

The more I read about fracking the more it sounds like another environmental disaster maybe worse that the gulf oil spill.
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mikesr11
Champion Author New York City

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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 8:24:58 AM

TRUCK THE FRACKING FLUIDS TO WASHINGTON, DC AND DROP THEM AT 1600 PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE - THERE IS PLENTY OF WASTE THERE!
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cookined
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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 8:24:46 AM

Move on you MORONS
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thuathienhue
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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 8:23:42 AM

Okay
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fatfed
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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 8:23:39 AM

As many people they are in the U S somebody is going to complain
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